Volume 3, Issue 4

International Parti Poodle Gazette

October 2007 

CONFORMATION STUDY:
FOUR POODLES AND A BORDER COLLIE

By Helen King

www.jility.com

PART I

Being an avid agility competitor, I recently made a study graph of the five dogs with which I compete to assess how each dog’s structure affected her performance on the agility course. Four of these dogs are Standard Poodles and one is a Border Collie.
Below are pictures of the four Poodles. I won’t give you my assessment until later, but will tell you about each dog to see if you can pair which dog goes with which description.

Poodle #1

Poodle #2

Poodle #3

Poodle #4

A. This dog has been the top winning agility Standard Poodle in the United States for two years. She often beats the Border Collies and qualifies for World Team tryouts every year. She can turn as sharply and as fast as any dog in agility. She has little ground speed but makes up for it on the course with her turning ability. She can also accelerate very quickly. If the course is twisty, she can do very well. If the course is long with lots of running in between obstacles, she will be a lot slower due to her lack of foot speed. She is a pretty good swimmer but not our strongest; however, she is a game dog and will try anything. She is a very good retriever.

B. This dog over jumps by a mile and flings her hind legs over her head when she jumps. When she is running loose with the other dogs, she is unable to lower her center of gravity at all; she can’t turn and is the slowest of the four Poodles. She is also terribly clumsy. Her hind legs trail way out behind her when she runs so she has little power. She can’t swim to save her life. She sinks like a stone and, although we have tried everything to help her learn, she just cannot swim. She also paces and has a hard time getting her rear end to come underneath her so it is difficult for her to sit, and she can barely squat to pee.

C. This dog has more ground speed than any of the others but has trouble turning and can’t lower her center of gravity easily. She is the best jumper and most athletic of the four but not the fastest on the agility course because of her inability to turn sharply. She also goosesteps when she runs and when she navigates the weave poles which is inefficient. This doesn’t slow her foot speed, but it does slow her in the weaves. She is our best and fastest swimmer and loves retrieving in the water (regardless of temperature) or anywhere else for that matter.

D. This dog turns well, lowers her center of gravity with the best of them, and has good ground speed. She is not the best jumper as she tends to over jump, but isn’t bad. She puts up very fast times on the course and is nearly as fast as our best agility dog. She is a very good swimmer, but the slowest of the swimmers. She will retrieve all day long; however, if the water is cold, she would rather retrieve on land or go to the spa.

Because our Border Collie’s structure is excellent for agility, I will use her to compare the angles of the Poodles. Crush, the BC, is by far the best and fastest of our five dogs: she is like a rocket in the water as well as on land! She can turn and accelerate to warp speed in the blink of an eye. She is a good jumper and can lower herself to the ground at full speed.

It is not my intention to say that Poodles should be built like Border Collies. I used the photo of our Border Collie Crush to illustrate the conformation that best lends itself to speed, turning, and the ability to really lower itself while at speed.

The Poodle was originally designed to be an all-around breed. He had to swim, hunt, herd, and entertain . . . just to name a few of his bred-for characteristics. This required him to be a moderately built dog. Even though Poodles were not originally bred for anything like agility, the sport does demonstrate a dog’s athleticism. I might also note here that Poodles were not originally bred to parade around a ring with huge hair that would drown them if they tried to swim with it. Early hunters kept their Poodle’s hair at a reasonable length. It was just long enough to keep the dog warm but not long enough to require banding in order to hunt. (Of course, one does see early photos of dogs in long cords or with an overgrowth of hair but that was not the norm for working Poodles.)

Agility dogs have to crouch and turn at speed (same in herding), jump (same as running through wooded terrain for hunting), and be biddable for training. Agility does not test the dogs swimming ability but does a pretty darn good job testing the rest!


PART II

Now that you have had time to study each dog and to guess which dog goes with which description, here is the second part of the study.

I have drawn a line on each dog from the point of the shoulder up through the highest point of the shoulder blade and one from the ilium to the ischium. Take a look at where these lines intersect on each dog. Think of a triangle and what kind of triangle is most balanced, then study the comparison of all five dogs at the bottom of this section.

After you have studied these, compare the Poodles to the Border Collie Crush who is nearly perfectly balanced front to rear in that angle. This makes her movement effortless, fast, and efficient.

Poodle number ONE is Durandel Hello Hollywood MX, MXJ, NF “Charisse”, the dog described above in C. She is faster on the ground and in the water than the others but has trouble turning due to her flatter pelvis and over angulation. She is over angulated in the rear and lacks length and angle to her upper arm (this is what causes her to goosestep). She is a powerful jumper and a great athlete and closer to the standard than Josephine, but will never be fast getting around an agility course.

Now, look at Poodle number TWO, MACH2 Teller Hollywood Dream, XF, CD, MAD “Josephine”, the dog described in A. She appears to be unbalanced, yet look at her triangle! She and dog four are the most balanced of the four Poodles, and are the best agility dogs. Josephine lacks ground speed due to her straight shoulders, but she can turn on a dime and accelerate in a blink. Structurally, she looks like a mess . . . but, is she? She could use a better front and, if she had one, it would be difficult for any dog to beat her on the agility course!

Poodle number THREE is MACH Penhurst Queen of Spain “Isabella”, the dog described in B. She is the most unbalanced of all the dogs . . . and, she is the one most Poodle people who have seen this study picked as the top winning agility dog. Look at how long Isabella is in her loin and how shallow in her pelvis. Her rear is extremely weak which is why she can’t swim, sit, turn, or jump well. She pulls herself along with her front when she moves and jumps rather than driving from behind as she should – however, she would look very pretty covered in show-ring hair to hide all these faults. That flat pelvis may look pretty in the ring, but it is not very functional in the water or on land! Isabella can’t swim and that is just one of the reasons . . . she can’t get her hind legs underneath to power herself along. She just sinks. (PLEASE don’t tell her I said these things about her – I do adore her so!)

Poodle number FOUR is Tiara MiniMe MX, MXJ “MeMe”, the dog described in D. Most people guessed her description correctly because of her undocked tail. She is balanced but has a very sloping pelvis. This allows her to turn sharply. She is a weaker jumper so tends to over jump, but that is due more to her Legg-Perthes surgery and not having a hip joint than it is to her structure.

Now, look at these four Poodles’ necks. Three of them are very ewe necked. This may be a big fault in the show ring, but, not only am I NOT convinced it is a problem in agility, I believe it may even be an asset. The three ewe necked dogs are: Josephine, MeMe, and Cursh!

PART III

Now that you know which dog is which and have looked at the shoulder and pelvis angle, it is time to look at the rest of the dog. Each photo is now accompanied by the description of each dog. Look at the lines and angles and read the performance abilities of each dog.

Poodle #1 – CHARISSE MX, MXJ, NF has more ground speed than any of the other Poodles but has trouble turning and can’t lower her center of gravity easily. She is the best jumper and most athletic of the four but not the fastest on the agility course because of her inability to turn sharply. She also goosesteps when she runs and weaves; this is inefficient but doesn’t slow her foot speed. However, this, coupled with her over angulated rear, does slow her in the weaves. She is our best and fastest swimmer and loves retrieving in the water (regardless of temperature) or anywhere else for that matter. She is extremely healthy, so far.

Poodle #2 – MACH 2 JOSEPHINE, CD, XF, MAD has been the top winning agility Standard Poodle in the United States for two years. She often beats the Border Collies and qualifies for World Team tryouts every year. She can turn as sharply and as fast as any dog in agility. She has little ground speed but makes up for it on the course with her turning ability. She can accelerate very quickly. If the course is twisty, she can do very well. If the course is long with lots of running in between obstacles, she will be a lot slower due to her lack of foot speed. She is a pretty good swimmer, but not our strongest; however, she is game to try anything. She is a very good retriever. Note the prominent ewe neck.
Poodle #3 - MACH Penhurst Queen of Spain “Isabella”, the dog described in B. She is the most unbalanced of all the dogs . . . and, she is the one most Poodle people who have seen this study picked as the top winning agility dog. Look at how long Isabella is in her loin and how shallow in her pelvis. Her rear is extremely weak which is why she can’t swim, sit, turn, or jump well. She pulls herself along with her front when she moves and jumps rather than driving from behind as she should – however, she would look very pretty covered in show-ring hair to hide all these faults. That flat pelvis may look pretty in the ring, but it is not very functional in the water or on land! Isabella can’t swim and that is just one of the reasons . . . she can’t get her hind legs underneath to power herself along. She just sinks. (PLEASE don’t tell her I said these things about her – I do adore her so!)
Poodle #4 – MEME MX, MXJ turns well, can lower her center of gravity with the best of them, and has good ground speed. She tends to over jump but isn’t too bad. This could be due to the fact she suffered from Legg-Perthes disease and had to have the head of her femur removed when she was a year old. Even with no hip joint, she is a sound mover and puts up very fast times on the course; she is nearly as fast as our best agility dog, Josephine. She is a very good swimmer but the slowest of the swimmers. She will retrieve all day long; however, if the water is cold, she would rather retrieve on land or go to the spa. Note the prominent ewe neck.

Although I have nothing against those who breed for the breed ring, I do believe that breeding for conformation showing has changed the Poodle. Some changes are for the better and some are not.

The only thing a judge sees in the ring is the dog gaiting and stacked. They don’t get a chance to judge how that Poodle’s form relates to the function for which he was intended. Some judges know and understand this, and some do not. In general, dogs of every breed are judged coming and going and from the side. Long striding, showy dogs are rewarded in most cases (unless the breed standard states otherwise). Judges and breeders get used to the show ring “look” which then becomes “type” and that is what is bred for. So breeds that were once bred for a certain task now are bred to look good trotting and standing, even though this was not their original job. The Border Collie and the Poodle are perfect examples of this! Both breeds have evolved to give a certain “look” in the ring. That “look” is called “type” and, in MY opinion, has absolutely nothing to do with the job each breed was originally intended to perform! The Border Collie is supposed to move in a crouching manner as they do when herding. The way that has translated to the breed ring is that they are now short legged to give the “appearance” of moving low to the ground. I have yet to see a breed type BC excel in agility. Most have lost that edge to work. It is very sad.


Isabella has a very long upper arm and shoulder blade. Her angles are fairly straight, but I have seen far worse. These long bones help her take long strides in front but the longer upper arm causes her to over jump to compensate for the fact that she can’t snap up those front legs to fold them under while jumping.

Her conformation can be related to conformation hunters in the horse show ring. Horse show judges pin those animals that can do a wonderful “daisy cutting” action on the flat. This pretty flat mover has a hard time snapping his legs up over jumps because the structure (long and well angled upper arm) that produces the daisy cutter also makes the horse slower to raise its front legs quickly to jump. Some (and I have ridden many of these) are downright dangerous over jumps but look very pretty standing and moving.


Charisse is our “snappiest” jumper and the best swimmer. Her front leg turn over is a lot faster than Isabella’s because her upper arm is shorter. This also causes her to goose step when she moves because her rear is over angulated and the front has no place to go but up to get out of the way. It seems to be a trade off, but there are happy mediums.

Josephine, as evidenced by the line drawings, is the most balanced of all the Poodles. She is straighter in both front and rear but can perform her jobs well. She could certainly use more angulation in her shoulder for more reach. This would give her more stride length for more speed on the flat.

I think we get used to seeing the side movement on dogs in the show ring and then our eyes learn to see what it is that creates that movement, and Isabella’s conformation is what you get. Of course, this flashy movement has nothing to do with swimming, or diving, or turning, or anything else the Poodle had to do to perform the tasks for which he was originally bred.

Border Collies are an example of what can happen when you only judge dogs by their show ring performance. The breed Border Collies are FAR removed from the working Border Collies. In the breed ring, Border Collies look like smaller sized Australian Shepherds with tails. They are very heavy boned and short legged. Most of the “conformation” Border Collies have a hard time performing at the top levels because they aren’t built to be quick. This change to a “show ring type” structure as opposed to a “working type” structure has happened in the very short time Border Collies have been American Kennel Club approved.

If we only judge our dogs to look pretty trotting around a ring with no consideration for which form is best for Poodle function, soon there will be very few Poodles who can perform their original tasks.

FOR THE LOVE OF PARTI POODLES AROUND THE WORLD

~International Parti Poodle Gazette
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